tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17206839.post5846058386028628062..comments2023-09-09T09:26:22.175-04:00Comments on Andrew Samwick's Blog: Holding Colleges Accountable for GraduationAndrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13514024573333057559noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17206839.post-56095252033321051012006-09-15T16:36:00.000-04:002006-09-15T16:36:00.000-04:00I teach at one of the institutions from which less...I teach at one of the institutions from which less than 20% of incoming students graduate within 6 years. (That percentage it itself somewhat difficult to interpret, as it does not count students who transfer and graduate, but, still,...)<br><br>Partly the problem is, as you indicate, poor preparation for many incoming students. The lack of preparation means that more and more students have to take more and more remedial (or, as the current euphemism has it, developmental) work. It's not uncommon for our students to have to take, for example, three math courses before they can take the math course that's a prerequisite for statistics. And they receive no credit toward graduation for the remedial work. Such work can involve up to 24 credit hours of classes--nearly one entire year's worth of classes. In addition to extending the time-to-graduation, this dramatically increases the cost of college. <br><br>Secondarily, it's a result of changes in the structure of financial aid. As grants have decline inimportance, debt has increased. As a consequence, the financial burden for the students we serve has probably increased (especially when one couples that with rapidly rising tuition/book prices).<br><br>Just a note from life in the trenches.dochttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07198988872512792834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17206839.post-40399712724879715622006-09-16T08:42:00.000-04:002006-09-16T08:42:00.000-04:00"right up there with "If you are going t..."right up there with "If you are going to use a singular noun (child), don't you have the responsibility to make sure you do not use a plural pronoun (they) to refer to it?" It is not a responsibility per se, but you may experience some negative reactions if you let it persist."<br><br>Ha! Damn clever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17206839.post-2567799442134746232006-09-16T13:14:00.000-04:002006-09-16T13:14:00.000-04:00Perhaps the real problem is trying to drive ever i...Perhaps the real problem is trying to drive ever increasing numbers of students through college although they may not be cut out for it. Perhaps raising admissions is as unrealistic as lowering standards. Perhaps educators have sold their message too well, to get a good job you need a good education, without being able to deliver on the education.Lordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17206839.post-1562052430878739752006-09-18T12:25:00.000-04:002006-09-18T12:25:00.000-04:00Wow. A 20% six-year graduation rate is really low...Wow. A 20% six-year graduation rate is really low. But I agree with the article that maybe a six-year graduation rate isn't an appropriate way to measure all universities. If you're taking classes at the university while you're also working 35-40 hrs a week to make your car payments, pay your cell phone bill, and maybe pay your rent and personal expenses, your views on things like homework, class attendance, and dropping courses are going to be fundamentally different from someone at Dartmouth whose full-time job is "studying."<br><br>Ill-prepared or not, students who work full-time jobs are going to have different centers-of-gravity. School is going to be a peripheral part of their life that can be dropped if need be if the rest of life gets too hectic. That's probably why the two universities mentioned at the end of the article that have improved their graduation rates achieved success by encouraging their students to spend more time on campus or in class.<br><br>I still think universities should be held accountable for their graduation rates, though, but only insofar as they are indicators of unreliable enrollment practices. If a state university is funded for enrolling a certain number of students in classes, but by the end of the semester 30% of them have dropped out (they're willing to forfeit the relatively cheap state university tuition), then the state taxpayers are funding a whole third of the student population that isn't there. In essence, the underperforming universities are being rewarded for high dropout rates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17206839.post-91490722507469816842006-10-05T13:55:00.000-04:002006-10-05T13:55:00.000-04:00Great blog with good interesting informations.Than...Great blog with good interesting informations.<br>Thank you. I have bookmarked it.<br>Greetz Jonathan R.SMSChathttp://www.smser.denoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17206839.post-21732946185205585222006-10-08T12:37:00.000-04:002006-10-08T12:37:00.000-04:00Hey, great blog.If I were an university and if I w...Hey, great blog.<br><br>If I were an university and if I were held accountable for my poor graduation rate, the easiest thing for me to do would be to stop admitting ill-prepared students. I wouldn't want to spend extra resources into re-educating the students in remedial courses. <br><br>What do we do with those students then?Biomed Timnoreply@blogger.com